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Does anyone know of other projects like CollapseOS and disaster.radio that are developing systems for futures where current (network) infrastructures have stopped functioning?

collapseos.org/
disaster.radio/

@l03s i didn't know about disaster.radio but it seems like a cool project as well. I really want to see more of these low-techy post-"collapse" projects pop up

@l03s I'd be interested in answers to this question as well, so please @me. Thank you. :flan_smile:

@l03s I've heard of https://briarproject.org/ for messaging without the Internet, which sounds pretty cool. (You still need a charged phone.)

@l03s I don't think the informing idea is post-collapse, but the stuff people are doing lately with LoRa and DASH7 to make parallel, low-speed, wide-area infrastructure is pretty interesting. (although admittedly, many are then using gateways to plug connect stuff back to the mainstream Internet)

@l03s https://wiki.xxiivv.com/site/uxn.html
it's something we're thinking about with https://cabal.chat as well, we haven't sprung into action yet on this, though (tho design has just started on a protocol revamp that is a lot less bandwidth intensive & transport-agnostic)
https://ssb.nz can work this way by letting information hop through devices as they pass through ad-hoc wifi hotspots / sync locally

@cblgh @LouInABox Thank you for these, very helpful :)

@neauoire

I'd be interested to know if post-collapse is informing any of the design choices, or resource minimalism and ability to work on older devices (or other)? It looks amazing :)

@l03s @cblgh @LouInABox A little bit, but nothing like CollapseOS.

Uxn is designed to be smaller(32 operations, 400 lines assembler/emulator), but the idea is more about getting people interested in simple 8-bit systems, than building a system that can be boostrapped on old Z80 chips.

I found that CollapseOS does a poor job at making this prospect appealing, emulator sucks, boot image can't do anything, etc.. I figured it might be more resilient to teach asm in a playful way.

@neauoire @cblgh @LouInABox

Ah that's a really nice way to approach it :) Thanks for this!

@neauoire @cblgh @LouInABox

Absolutely spot on, thanks for sharing :)

The paper computing page resonates a lot with a project I worked on with @320x200 and @cmos4040 The SKOR Codex needs no computer to be decoded, only an understanding of physics.

societeanonyme.bleu255.com/

@l03s @cblgh @LouInABox @320x200 @cmos4040 I've been getting lost in the network of sites on bleu255 for the past hour, top-notch rabbit hole.

@neauoire @l03s @cblgh @LouInABox that also reminds me a piece of software that I've almost forgotten: MenuetOS. It's fully FASM operating system that also includes the assembler. And it's fully graphical and very small (running from floppy disk)

@l03s might overlap with disaster.radio:
https://named-data.net/

Not collapse focused, but very much intended to work even with intermittent connectivity. Some militaries are interested in it too, so now is a good time to steer it to be useful to not necessarily legal civilian uses as well. There is proper academic research going on behind it. Unlike SecSB, you don't need to store data forever.

@l03s The nice thing about it for me is that it doesn't just work with high latency networks, it can also be used in a low latency data center network, or anything in between, and it brings actual benefits compared to (TCP/)IP, so there is a good reason to adopt it even now.

@csepp this is really interesting! I had not come across it yet. Reading up as we speak :)

DASH7, mentioned by @praxeology was also initiated by military/DARPA. Of course it makes sense that the military would be interested in resilient network systems able to function independent from Internet, energy grid, etc. Interesting overlap with post-collapse projects.

@l03s
I think for this sort of thing to be truly useful in a disaster / societal collapse situation, it needs to be flexible and adaptable to whatever hardware you can find and whatever simple interfaces can be built in-situ.

Or do we just expect a bunch of people to stockpile stuff like ESP32 boards and LoRa radios while they can be cheaply ordered from China?

@abortretryfail a very good point. Building for (however old) devices with long lifespans, or for components that can be easily found and reused is a much safer bet :)

@l03s As i have backgroud in 8bit/microcontrollers/radio designs i feel sentiment for such a projects. But from the other side i don't quite understand reason to build OS from scratch, that has zero usefull applications written. Contrary to many existing, old 8bit OS's, well documented, available for the same hardware

@miklo I guess one reason could be that collapseOS runs on different CPUs and is open source so you could more easily develop applications that can run across a wider range of devices?

But I also see your point, no need to reinvent the wheel. In any case having multiple approaches available sounds good.

@l03s i really value code portability but such OS already exist and i've used it many years ago: http://contiki-os.org/ . Run on almost any CPU from 8bits to 32bit, with multitasking, internet/radio enabled, graphic desktop (using VNC), usb, storage, etc.

@l03s Sometimes ago i had prepared virtual machine for Contiki OS development on AVR 8-bit boards: https://sourceforge.net/projects/contiki-ide/

@l03s any Linux would do the same. it scales from embedded to mainframes.
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