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You could probably just rename university programs in "Graphic Design" to "Applied Adobe Patronage".

@praxeology my former roommate was a graphic design student at the time, and in his first semester, their professor heavily suggested to his students that they should all pirate adobe software.

@praxeology pretty much any arts-related degree and any corporate entity. I remember a lot of max and protools and ableton throughout music school and I entered music school a devout mac user and left it with all my academic discounted licenses going to waste and linux installed on everything.

@mrufrufin I would argue that the Adobe corp has largely enclosed "professional" visual culture. If you walk down a street, almost all the images and words you see will have been produced involving their products. So it kind of reverses the relationship where creators are important and their choices of tools and methods are personal and specific. Particular brands of pencils or paints were once important to individuals but on a global scale interchangeable.

Now those choices have already been made by a product development team in California. The part which is arbitrary and interchangeable is now the designer. If you make "serious" or "professional", images you must use Adobe. Anything else is unimaginable – threatening, strange or both.

I'm being a bit dramatic but I think it's not so far from the reality of the situation.

Is the same true for music? If I hear a tune in public can I be largely certain that ProTools or Ableton was used as the prerequisite?

@praxeology @mrufrufin Sounds pretty realistic to me :)

I would ascribe a similar mainstream production monoculture to music (and sound in general), only that there is a greater number of vendors that all produce the same tools with different names ... @poemproducer shared something fantastic on that topic recently! mastodon.social/@poemproducer/

@praxeology I suppose it's not as bad as the visual arts but I've def seen plenty of job postings, both academic and not, specify Pro Tools expertise. At least in academic circles, I've seen Reaper gain more of a foothold? But not sure if it had made similar inroads in industry. And terms of "computer music" things, I'm pretty Max is "the thing" to use. I'm not sure how it's going in the music notation front since Sibelius seems pretty much dead at this point.

So, I guess it's a bit more,... oligarchical? lol but def helped shape my strong belief that educators shouldn't be salespeople and I didn't have any professors that actively pushed specific tools, it's kind of forced anyways because of the whole state of things.

@praxeology also, thinking about it now,, I kinda wonder how many non-mac computers I've seen at computer music concerts...

@mrufrufin It's kind crazy to think that people whose whole identity revolves around being creative could be so conformist about their tools.

This got me thinking about how many fine-art curators there are in Berlin, people who have pretty wide and varying opinions about aesthetics and practice. The clothes they wear and music they like is also fairly diverse.

But I bet that there are only like 5-10 of them that actually don't have an iPhone.

@praxeology @mrufrufin This is conflating everything into one (Software, hardware, streetwear :) but I agree. I think education is the № 1 problem here and could also be the № 1 solution: stop teaching specific software and start teaching methods and principles. I don’t care which program my students use. I point out the differences between pixel-based and vector-based drawing and text/layout-centered apps. Master pages, stylesheets, element libraries, guides …

@mrufrufin @praxeology I feel also (though I am no musician) that a lot of music workflow can be done with analog/physical devices that visual arts maybe doesn't have an equivalent to. You could of course always go back to using airbrushes, letterpress machines etc but those tools often create a vastly different outcome and workflows from the adobe software while you can make music using only hardware devices like synths and drummachines and probably get almost identical results to Protools/Ableton/whatever.

I guess the topic on new non-software or non-computer design tools has maybe not been explored much or is not that widespread but I think it is very interesting.

@kurbitur @praxeology i think you technically could? but different interfaces lend themselves to different ways of thinking. DAWs like ProTools/Ableton/Logic have the timeline and you can snap to various bars or subdivisions of beats of bars so that lends itself so a specific sort of music. Ableton has those loops you can trigger which lends itself to that sort of music. Things like Max are basically a blank canvas and even though it includes "transport" (tempo, bars, beats) sorts of things (esp with the meshing with Ableton), it isn't the only (nor main presented) option so that lends itself to a specific type of music. Livecoding things like TidalCycles, although it's more "blank canvas" than a DAW, operates around the concept of a cycle so it lends itself to things repeating (and we're back to loops again).

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Welcome to post.lurk.org, an instance for discussions around cultural freedom, experimental, new media art, net and computational culture, and things like that.