@pixouls

It's funny, I was watching a video about the pitiful death of web3 where the guy explained that web1 was the original internet, and while there were websites, "there was no easy or tangible way for *you* to make a website". Basically saying that Yahoo or some other internet company made websites and users could only just look at them and not make their own stuff.

Which...is not how I remember it at all, if we're being honest.

@pixouls

Well, yeah. To be fair, he's clearly not old enough to really remember stuff like Geocities and Angelfire, that mailing lists were everywhere and acting as semi real-time forums, or that Dreamweaver came out in 1997 and made website building much easier.

There were tonnes of regular, not-very-technical folks building webpages all over the place at the time. But it wasn't subject to the *marketing* that web2 brought to the party.

@Nezchan I'm not even old enough to really remember geocities and angelfire 馃サ but yeah, I make an actual effort to learn about the old internet.

You make a good point about the marketing!

@pixouls

Hell, I had a Geocities site that I hand-coded using basic HTML, and I am anything *but* a programmer. It wasn't all that hard, and you could just download the code from an existing page to figure out the basic structure.

It was no more difficult than editing Wikipedia, if all you wanted was something readable without a lot of bells and whistles.

@Nezchan @pixouls I even made it look good, for the time. Resurrected what I think was my second website design a few years later. I still kind of like it.

@jens @Nezchan I know we were talking about your personal website here, but interpeer sounds like an interesting project too!

@pixouls @Nezchan That's not the design I'm talking about; I actually want to have that redone. But thank you!

@Nezchan @pixouls HTML isn't hard, it's just super time consuming. For people who would rather write instead of design, it's a big mess.

@atomicpoet @pixouls

Sure, but it didn't take very long before there were WYSIWYG HTML editors that took care of a lot of that stuff.

@Nezchan @pixouls For writers, WYSIWYG isn't entirely a solution because highlighting and formatting text through a graphical interface also takes time. If you want to emphasize something, it takes away from your flow if you stop mid thought to italicize.

Then a bunch of geniuses realized that you can solve this formatting problem through markdown. Instead of doing <em>this</em>, you do *this*.

Later, someone realized you can build actual mark up (Gemtext) with stuff resembling markdown.

@Nezchan @pixouls i vaguely recall geocities might have even had a wysiwyg editor??? or are my memories of my high school daze finally starting to rot for good?

@Nezchan

But if you try to make do with just HTML and CSS when making a blog you won't get any interaction at all because the site is totally static and you can only change it yourself. So you could't have any comments, which some would consider essential for a blog to have. At least they used to, back in the day.

@pixouls

@hllizi @pixouls

Many of the earliest blogs (including one by my Roommate) were exactly that. They were "web logs", and comments didn't come along until much later. They're not an original part of the concept.

@Nezchan

but it seems that the ones allowing interaction were what really took off. Nothing against static content though, it may well be what one wants.

@pixouls

@Nezchan @hllizi @pixouls After that, in the late 00s there was a movement around improving the quality of blogs by removing the comments feature.

@hllizi @Nezchan @pixouls

Every item on that cart - as far as I'm aware - is a front-end technology. It makes no mention of the back-end tech.

@BigTheDave

Fair point, although you could use TS on the backend, too.

@Nezchan @pixouls

@pixouls @Nezchan when I was really young my dad showed me the internet and how to use it and such. It was the late 90鈥檚, and one of the things he said to me was that I was going to see the major commercialization of the internet.

Always stuck with me.

@pixouls @Nezchan
Is it gauche to jump in here?

I started learning HTML in college with Geocities (before Yahoo bought the service) and I am VERY excited to learn that Webrings have made a comeback!

@loosecannon887 @pixouls

Nah, jumping into conversations is to be expected on Mastodon. Unless it's something really personal I guess.

But webrings are back? That's awesome. I had such fun with random rings back in the day.

@Nezchan @pixouls I have yet to find anything today that makes website building as easy and fun as Allaire Homesite (bought by Dreamweaver which was bought by Adobe) OR Anansi did back in 1997-9.
Anansi was a one-person project written in Turbo Pascal which I think was an old language then. The writer was Dutch, maybe Dutch-Surinamese, which would explain the name. It had project-wide search and replace, syntax highlighting and a built-in browser preview.

@Nezchan @pixouls The stuff I made with it was simple, but mostly because I wanted it to be.

The program's author had to bail on all his projects because of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, if I recall correctly. I hope he's all right.

@pixouls @Nezchan Very, very, very wrong. I was there. I can still remember the first time I saw CSS demoed. It was in a movie theater (some company, MS maybe, was doing some sort of promotional simulcast all over the country) and it blew my mind more than EEAAO did. I was staggered.

@Nezchan @pixouls sorry i can't hear this guy's take over my memories of

鉁煍i and welcome to my page of doooooom馃敟鉁

::red text on animated starfield background::

::autoplay midi::

@Nezchan @pixouls Yeah its straight up not true. Back in the 90s there were flourishing small ISPs all over the place and making your own web site just involved dropping an html file in your home directory.

PSA 

@pixouls If your blog page requires a super computer to access, stop developing websites and go Amish.

This is not a criticism of the comic or @pixouls who is lovely, the "Yes." just got me thinking of that meme :)

@pixouls No offense to whoever made this meme, but HTML is a nightmare for writing. Having to deal with tags takes away valuable time from my main pursuit, which should be getting thoughts from my brain to my page. When markdown came out, it was a godsend.

But let me go further: if you want a super easy way to build a blog without any clutter, go with gemtext.

@atomicpoet @pixouls maybe this isn't for you and that's fine. The point is that not everyone wants the same things. I personally enjoy writing HTML, although Emacs closing tags for me automatically does make it nicer

@juliana @pixouls I get that you like HTML -- which is fine. My point is you can go even simpler with Gemtext, and it works better for people who'd prefer working with words instead of tags.

@atomicpoet @pixouls

I totally agree with you.

A friend and I are both running some small blogs, and his is entirely in HTML/CSS without a template system. He's excited for a lot of the same reasons seen in this thread. However, any time he wants to update his menus, header, footer, etc, he has to update a ton of files. It's very lightweight, but I'd rather take a lightweight framework with markdown/gemtext for my posts, that way I can keep the barrier to writing as low as possible.

@pixouls I strongly believe that RSS/ATOM are important for blogs, too.

@pixouls I remember the days when adding Bootstrap was considered lazy and you were expected to roll your own!

@pixouls me unit testing my site is loading it in the browser and checking if it looks alright

@pixouls I鈥檓 not a hardliner on this subject. You can also have a little JavaScript, as a treat

@pixouls @vortex_egg
Omg
Tailwind?
As in tailwind css?
Im fairly certain thats an unpardonable sin

@pixouls SSG like Zola or 11ty are really useful and fast for development

@pixouls I鈥檓 happy both people in the picture have access to the tools they wish to use. And if the HTML user finds a need for templates, live editing, SEO affordances, and the many other things many blogs depend on to attract traffic, they鈥檝e got options

@pixouls @astralfrontier why do you think anything about a simple site would hurt SEO, which is pretty much based on structuring the page, fast load, and having relevant words in it?

@pixouls I feel like one of them should be carrying content.

@pixouls I take three boxes, HTML, CSS and some Static Site generator like Jigsaw or Jekyll. Writing all the content sites from scratch is just so annoying.

@pixouls ok yeah your right but....... who uses html for a blog? rss exists for a reason /hj

@pixouls Currently in the process of moving my blog from wordpress to a static site, generated by Jekyll and hosted by Github Pages (but could be hosted pretty much anywhere).

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