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climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

I hate my web developer job. No time for unit testing, no time for documentation, no time for creativity or nice algorithms.
Just use whatever trendy JS {front,back}end framework, ship high bandwidth, heavy, soulless sites in no time.
The mere consciousness of it from my colleagues are jokes between two crypto bs talks. The climate catastrophes ahead are literally a joke to them.
I hate that I contribute to this and I want out.

Does anyone here have experience going from this kind of job to a more engineering-focused, ethical one? Tips? Interesting reads? I'd love to hear about it!

Boosts are appreciated!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0
I am on the backend side (java/kotlin) of an ad-supported video streaming service.. "no no, no need for good algorithms and a smooth experience, just make sure they watch the ads". (I'm slightly exaggerating, but still..)
So I'm looking as well.. would love to do something useful.

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@woozong
I'll tell you if I find something interesting, also look in my mentions!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@woozong
And we're strangers on the internet and all but... What if we brought together people like us and made a coop?

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0
I've been looking at coops and would be quite interested to join one.
I'm all for exploring where this thread might lead us :)

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 @woozong Another stranger on the internet here, I've been thinking the same thing. I'd certainly work for such a coop, even on a volunteer basis. I'd love to see this started, and I'm sure many other people would join as well.

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0
thanks, will do \m/

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@woozong @1frn0 Hey you both. I know https://systemseed.com/ They might be something close to what you are looking for. They're hiring right now. You can mention my name when you reach out to them.

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@xuv @1frn0
Thanks for that link Julien. I hadn't heard about systemseed, but they sure look interesting. might send in my cv and see if we fit. \m/

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 This an interesting question in general, where to point people looking for a job with purpose?

First: Send an open application to an organisation that you admire for what they do. Just with your background and CV and that you'd be happy to work for them.

Further, I tend to point friends with this question to non-profits or the government (national or municipal), or otherwise companies that are actively working to fight the climate crisis.

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@Erik I never considered sending unsolicited applications but I might try. I really considered becoming a teacher-researcher in universities but going back to uni would be complicated, for now at least.Thank you!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 you're not alone

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0

I would stick with what you have while you learn new skills, you are in employment and get a regular pay (I am guessing there a bit)

Keep an eye out for jobs on here or elsewhere,m I would laso guess the less your current employer knows you want out the better (they may use it as an excuse to sack you)

Perhaps others can offer more useful advice but good luck I am sure there is something out there for you.

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@zleap Your guesses are right! I'm often contemplating running away but this is too risky, also we share that perspective on keeping boss at distance! Thank you for this wholesome answer!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 I don’t, because me and many of my colleagues came from environmental science — but I know a jobs page and we seek people with interest in testing and creating an interface that is actually enjoyable to use and enables normal people to do solid geoanalytics: https://www.disy.net/en/career/jobs/

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@ArneBab This sounds very interesting! One of the jobs listed is actually pretty close to my skill set. Thank you!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 I wish you good luck! I’m not one of the team leads who do the recruiting, but wanting to do good work that lasts is a good prerequisite.

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 have you looked at fossjobs.net ?

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@nintegge I had not, now I did and several positions on there seem to match my interests! Thank you!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 similar boat but mostly backend were all technology is EOL’d like minimum 3 years ago and very few documentation, it’s heavy, slow and mostly bloated, but there are several projects that you can find a more engineering focus, I’m finding a ratio of 5 to 1 job offers saying that. Not much on the climate end. Good luck!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@laruibasar That EOL thing is scary! May I ask where you look for jobs? The climate part is a tricky one I know, I might stay unsatisfied about this for some time. Thank you!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 I never thought but use LinkedIn and focus on specific search results and look always for website info and comments site (if I find reviews). Look on site landing.jobs but I think it’s mostly for Portugal we’re I live, but looking for full remote on Europe.

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@laruibasar
I'll give a look at it, thank you!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 I did this sort of move (almost). I left the ecommerce sector to work in an scientific startup (antibody/immunology). Downside, the work is as hard as before, even hardest : because I’m in a more senior position (broad scope and responsibilities) and young company in a very hot and competitive sector. But the topics are really interesting and ethically fulfilling.
I guess it would be calmer in a more mature and large structure

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@0gust1 That's a nice move. I hope the ethical fulfillment makes up for the harder tasks! This gives me hope, thank you!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 being the first developer hired in a young structure imply that a big part of the eng. culture is on my shoulders ^^
I « found » the job by the network, by people knowing me since a while.

- trust the network & friends
- try to contribute to projects (even if it’s no code directly)
- try to make a personal project that fullfill you (authentic) that can later speaks for you
- it can take time and intermediate less shitty jobs

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 I went from fintech to edtech last year. It's better in enough ways to notice, at least. I also think I just got lucky, and I don't know if I could reliably do it again.

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 check these out https://100r.co/site/store.html their book might inspire you for more radical change :D

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@gef
I was listening to the interview! Aaaaaand I just ordered the book in print!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@gef
Soooo this came in the mail

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 nice :D enjoy the ride!!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 Thanks a lot for sharing this, I feel exactly like you and honestly, I haven't found a good way out yet and despair more every day.
If you happen to find a project and/or a team that's closer to your ideals, I would be very interested to know how. I hope you find it soon!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@badumtss I wrote this post out of despair so I def understand you. I'm sure we will find something if we don't allow ourselves to be content with this, let's just not allow ourselves to turn it into bitterness.

This post was part of the process for me to acknowledge things need to change. I've also been more programming on my own, reading more, starting to write and providing better care for myself.

The post is pretty recent so no significant change happened but I had interesting chats with people like us!

Anyway I'll probably post about it once I find a better path, whatever it may be. I hope you find it soon too!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 feel you on two levels: I often found mainstream tech off-putting my engineering aesthetic, be it PHP or React.
I did not ever learn them properly, and don't want to - there is a lot of other tech that is intellectually rewarding. When you look at somebody's work and think that pieces just fall into place.
Try functional programming, try BSD operating systems for that.

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@movonw
> I did not ever learn them properly, and don't want to
I'm the same, also I really like the term "engineering aesthetic"!

I've been reading some parts of BSD (don't remember which one) a couple years back and I loved the simplicity. I play on Linux so using it as a daily driver may not be a perfect fit for me. However, switching to Void Linux is a goal for this year. I've heard it's pretty close to BSD?

I tried Haskell a couple years ago but I lost focus. This is some knowledge I def must expand in the future. I feel like I should focus on C and Go this year.

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 On another level I try not to focus so much on the tech itself, but what is it used for. I've been working for NGOs and definitely they do not pay as much as for profits or silicon valley speculators..but you see that your work brings joy and goodness to the world.
Right now I am building an action tool for progressive movements https://proca.app which is also free software. And we are looking for a front-end dev if you're interested

re: climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 Do you have education, knowledge, or even just interest in something computing-adjacent?

I moved out of webdev 20 years ago by shifting to bioinformatics (I have a biology education) and from there to microelectronics CAD. I had no education in electronics, but it had been a long-time hobby. It took a fair bit of effort, and some good luck.

I’ve also seen people go back to university to facilitate a change like that. Universities in France are very accessible; I’m not sure where you‘re located.

Feel free to ask any questions

re: climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@tfb I have the three haha.
I've considered a lot going back to uni, unfortunately and despite being in France I'm not in a place where I can go back to uni atm, but this is definitely something I keep in the back of my head.

Regarding your shift in career, did you just try and shoot applications here and there explaining your hobby?

re: climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 I contacted people in industry and universities. Sometimes there are paid research positions that can give job experience and academic credentials at the same time (I nearly went with that for bioinformatics), there's whatever CPF credits you might have.

The approach I took was to find jobs with some overlap with my profile, and apply; initially that meant bioinformatics with a web component. With CAD, I had relevant programming language experience, experience building GUI applications, and I explained my interest in the subject and my willingness/desire to learn more. I got hired on at honestly too low a grade for my experience, but it worked out and I have no regrets.

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 maybe have an eye on @fossjobs ?

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@nintegge Someone mentioned it previously in this thread, I didn't know about it and I've sent a couple applications since. I'll follow it to ease the process. Unfollowing it will be my next milestone! Thank you!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 you’re welcome :)

re: climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 Want to help the planet? Stop making money!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0

millennial web design ruined the net

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