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climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

I hate my web developer job. No time for unit testing, no time for documentation, no time for creativity or nice algorithms.
Just use whatever trendy JS {front,back}end framework, ship high bandwidth, heavy, soulless sites in no time.
The mere consciousness of it from my colleagues are jokes between two crypto bs talks. The climate catastrophes ahead are literally a joke to them.
I hate that I contribute to this and I want out.

Does anyone here have experience going from this kind of job to a more engineering-focused, ethical one? Tips? Interesting reads? I'd love to hear about it!

Boosts are appreciated!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0
I am on the backend side (java/kotlin) of an ad-supported video streaming service.. "no no, no need for good algorithms and a smooth experience, just make sure they watch the ads". (I'm slightly exaggerating, but still..)
So I'm looking as well.. would love to do something useful.

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@woozong
I'll tell you if I find something interesting, also look in my mentions!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@woozong
And we're strangers on the internet and all but... What if we brought together people like us and made a coop?

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0
I've been looking at coops and would be quite interested to join one.
I'm all for exploring where this thread might lead us :)

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 @woozong Another stranger on the internet here, I've been thinking the same thing. I'd certainly work for such a coop, even on a volunteer basis. I'd love to see this started, and I'm sure many other people would join as well.

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0
thanks, will do \m/

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@woozong @1frn0 Hey you both. I know https://systemseed.com/ They might be something close to what you are looking for. They're hiring right now. You can mention my name when you reach out to them.

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@xuv @1frn0
Thanks for that link Julien. I hadn't heard about systemseed, but they sure look interesting. might send in my cv and see if we fit. \m/

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 hi!

You can make your priorities clear when you’re interviewing for a new gig… before you interview even – tell the recruiter

It may also be time to start applying for more senior roles where you have more influence on how work is done

But sometimes this problem goes all the way to the top; you can’t take time and do things well if company leadership is obsessed with shipping

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 so it really comes down to communication before you have the job and communication after the job. Both are essential

Ask around in your network and see who is given time to do things the right way and then tell them you want to do that too

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@flip This hits home, I used to really put myself aside when I landed that job. My communication skills and networking are still very WIP but I'm willing to make something out of it! Thank you!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 it takes practice and time, but you can do it

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 This an interesting question in general, where to point people looking for a job with purpose?

First: Send an open application to an organisation that you admire for what they do. Just with your background and CV and that you'd be happy to work for them.

Further, I tend to point friends with this question to non-profits or the government (national or municipal), or otherwise companies that are actively working to fight the climate crisis.

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@Erik I never considered sending unsolicited applications but I might try. I really considered becoming a teacher-researcher in universities but going back to uni would be complicated, for now at least.Thank you!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 you're not alone

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 hi, am librarian who does webdev stuff. you might consider looking at the Code4Lib jobs page (https://jobs.code4lib.org/) or looking at higher education jobs generally.

libraries and unis aren't perfect and don't necessarily pay as well, but you'll have (hopefully) fewer ethical concerns and work with really good folks. that's been my experience generally.

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@anelki I'm in France, where I've been very close to going for a PhD to be a teacher-researcher but I let the idea aside, at least for now. You're right I should look at higher educations job. I've been scanning through Code4Lib and some of the job there sound super interesting! Thank you!

re: climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 hope it helps! I've seen jobs over in Germany and Austria, I know there are some people from French unis involved with Code4Lib as well.

Libraries also tend to be somewhat chill places to work, not as stressful as working for a company.

good luck!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@anelki @1frn0 I went from corporate soulless web Dev this year to being tech support at a local K-12 (+ teaching a couple classes)...I absolutely love it and would highly recommend if you can handle the dramatic wage shift! Good luck on your journey!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@specter This is the first time I hear about K12, thanks! Teaching is something I'd really enjoy. I'm kinda underpaid already so a wage shift wouldn't be that bad haha, also if done in the way you did it, it sounds like a drastic improvement of quality of life! Thank you a lot!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 Hi, I'm a systems administrator turned manager. I strongly encourage you to explore other sectors computing, but I also think the problems you're describing aren't inherent to any one field -- they're a product of a bad work culture. It's possible to pursue webdev in a thoughtful and principled shop, and I promise you'll find using your skills more rewarding in a better-run organization.

Ask about this when you interview!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 For more concrete advice, this sort of thing is why I prefer to work in academic or research settings, where profit is not the overriding goal. I've found great opportunities in state universities, national research labs, and even freelance consulting.

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@khm I'm in the EU where universities unfortunately don't seem as accessible but research would be something I'd love. Also I think I'll eventually end up in other sector computing but I never looked at it as exploration. Thank you!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 Depending on where in the EU you are (or want to be) take a look at organizations like ETH Zurich, LRZ, CNRS, Forschungszentrum Jülich, etc. A lot of these research places have special recruiting tracks for IT-related staff; I certainly don't have a PhD but I still work in a research lab. It's always worth looking, and if the mission inspires you, maybe even e-mail places directly!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@khm Thank you for those orgs names, I'll make sure to check them all!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0

I would stick with what you have while you learn new skills, you are in employment and get a regular pay (I am guessing there a bit)

Keep an eye out for jobs on here or elsewhere,m I would laso guess the less your current employer knows you want out the better (they may use it as an excuse to sack you)

Perhaps others can offer more useful advice but good luck I am sure there is something out there for you.

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@zleap Your guesses are right! I'm often contemplating running away but this is too risky, also we share that perspective on keeping boss at distance! Thank you for this wholesome answer!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 I don’t, because me and many of my colleagues came from environmental science — but I know a jobs page and we seek people with interest in testing and creating an interface that is actually enjoyable to use and enables normal people to do solid geoanalytics: https://www.disy.net/en/career/jobs/

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@ArneBab This sounds very interesting! One of the jobs listed is actually pretty close to my skill set. Thank you!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 I wish you good luck! I’m not one of the team leads who do the recruiting, but wanting to do good work that lasts is a good prerequisite.

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 have you looked at fossjobs.net ?

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@nintegge I had not, now I did and several positions on there seem to match my interests! Thank you!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 similar boat but mostly backend were all technology is EOL’d like minimum 3 years ago and very few documentation, it’s heavy, slow and mostly bloated, but there are several projects that you can find a more engineering focus, I’m finding a ratio of 5 to 1 job offers saying that. Not much on the climate end. Good luck!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@laruibasar That EOL thing is scary! May I ask where you look for jobs? The climate part is a tricky one I know, I might stay unsatisfied about this for some time. Thank you!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 I never thought but use LinkedIn and focus on specific search results and look always for website info and comments site (if I find reviews). Look on site landing.jobs but I think it’s mostly for Portugal we’re I live, but looking for full remote on Europe.

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@laruibasar
I'll give a look at it, thank you!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 I did this sort of move (almost). I left the ecommerce sector to work in an scientific startup (antibody/immunology). Downside, the work is as hard as before, even hardest : because I’m in a more senior position (broad scope and responsibilities) and young company in a very hot and competitive sector. But the topics are really interesting and ethically fulfilling.
I guess it would be calmer in a more mature and large structure

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@0gust1 That's a nice move. I hope the ethical fulfillment makes up for the harder tasks! This gives me hope, thank you!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 being the first developer hired in a young structure imply that a big part of the eng. culture is on my shoulders ^^
I « found » the job by the network, by people knowing me since a while.

- trust the network & friends
- try to contribute to projects (even if it’s no code directly)
- try to make a personal project that fullfill you (authentic) that can later speaks for you
- it can take time and intermediate less shitty jobs

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 I went from fintech to edtech last year. It's better in enough ways to notice, at least. I also think I just got lucky, and I don't know if I could reliably do it again.

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 check these out https://100r.co/site/store.html their book might inspire you for more radical change :D

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@gef
I was listening to the interview! Aaaaaand I just ordered the book in print!

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@gef
Soooo this came in the mail

climate, webdev, rant, looking for something else 

@1frn0 nice :D enjoy the ride!!

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